Dancers or not, we are all people with our specific traits and levels of trustworthiness, manners of treating others and dealing with made promises and arrangements. Several months into one long and unpleasant story, it is time to warn our fellow dancers about two people in our community, with whom they should be very careful about any arrangements that involve money. I am not going to say they are frauds, intentionally dishonest, plain rude and inconsiderate at all times. Maybe they’re none of the above even in this particular case and something else has gone wrong – I’m all for extending the benefit of the doubt to fellow humans.
This story is updated to reflect that one party covered up for their dues. The other, as it stands in February 2015, still hasn’t.
Laia Rojano still has not met her financial obligations to a person, whom she promised to reimburse.
Worse yet, this left that person in a very difficult financial situation at the time, while she is not experiencing any apparent discomforts, nor showing any urgency about paying back.
I won’t be making any unnecessary commentary of my own. Below are excerpts from Facebook conversations that illustrate the development of the entire situation sufficiently well. Screen shots of everything are available on request. Original wording/spelling is preserved, although a few irrelevant things (like strings of smiley faces, repeated comments like “jajajajaja” or profile picture thumbnails) may have been deleted for brevity. Names of any persons not involved in this mess and any personal/contact information details have been omitted. Name of the person who paid back has been changed to ‘Person2’
TL;DR summary of the situation:
In January Laia Rojano and Person2 agreed with Aline Groeneveld that they will come to Amsterdam for the Salsa&Zouk Congress in February. Aline told them ahead of time she was NOT planning to go to the congress (except for, maybe, Saturday night party) because she couldn’t afford the costs at that moment. Laia and Person2 then agreed to cover the gas and parking costs for the weekend in exchange for Aline going to all the congress parties and driving them along. The key post confirming this specific arrangement can be found under “Conversation between Aline, Laia, Person2 and ****. February 3, 2013″ (Note: that Aline arranged for a house for them to stay at for free and closer to the venue, thus reducing the costs, is of no relevance to the agreement to cover gas costs). As for June 17, 2013, neither one of them has yet paid back what they owe.
Comment on Laia’s rant about some apparent coffees etc in Barcelona (in December 2012):
That comment is fully irrelevant to the current situation. First of all, any small coffee etc costs from Barcelona would NOT have added up to the amount owed to Aline, even if there had been an agreement to reimburse. Frankly, I was there with Aline at that same time and I’m not really aware of any such expenses existing at all, except one bag of chips we all shared in the car and a lift one way to one of the parties outside of Barcelona. More importantly, there was NO agreement made about reimbursing any coffee/etc expenses mentioned at any time until Laia brought it up out of the blue in the below-copied conversation – months later. Such small things are common courtesy between friends and no one ever counts them.
Appeals to ANY past expenses that were voluntarily made by Laia in Barcelona without an explicit request for reimbursement are fully irrelevant. In international business law, that would equate to subjectively and retrospectively changing the terms of a contract/agreement without informing the other party – something that simply doesn’t pass in either law or real life. For example: I invited my friends to stay at my house for free during the Prague Zouk Congress. Imagine me writing them all 4 months later saying they owe me money for electricity and water bills for their stay – this is as insane as what Laia brings up in the end.
Please take precautions when dealing financially with Laia, as she may be unreliable in keeping financial obligations – that’s all there is to say.
This is how it all began…
(Conversation between Aline and Person2, January 22, 2013. Screenshots cut in February 2015 to cover up Person2’s name)
(Conversation between myself and Aline. January 22, 8:00pm)
- 8:01pm Aline Groeneveld
But my next guests just booked their flights! Person2 and Laia are coming with the Amsterdam Salsa & Zouk Festival 8-10 february
They’ll pay for my gas costs LOL
- 8:01pm Leah InShade
Are you gonna go? I’m definitely not going…
- 8:07pm Aline Groeneveld
Now I’m going yes! Because of them. Otherwise I was just gonna go Saturday night for the party, nothing more
(Conversation between Aline, Laia, Person2 and ****. February 2, 2013)
- 11:15am Laia Rojano
We need your help to do check in Hotel of Amsterdam
If you want… You can remain to sleeping in the hotel with us
You can save money in gasoil
- 4.12pm Aline Groeneveld
I might have a house for us to stay close to Amsterdam, don’t book a hotel yet! I’ll let you know ASAP
- 7.41pm Aline Groeneveld
Confirmed!!! We have a house of a friend of mine where we can stay for free, only 20 minutes away from the congress! He is gonna be in London himself so it’s all ours for the whole weekend!
So the gascosts are reduced then to me coming from my house to pick you up, going to Amsterdam from his house and viceversa in the weekend a couple of times and for me going back to my house on Monday. Furthermore we have to do some shopping of course for food etcetera but we can cook ourselfs there of course so that will be cheap enough.
I just promised him to leave the house clean and everything when we leave again on Monday so perfect right?
(Conversation between Aline and myself. February 2, 2013)
- 7:47pm Aline Groeneveld
I have arranged a whole house for me, Person2 and Laia (and perhaps *****) to stay during the congress next weekend! We can stay at ***** house, while he is away himself, sweet right! Its only 20 minutes away from the congress itself
(Conversation between Aline, Laia, Person2 and ****. February 3, 2013)
- 2:32am Laia Rojano
Which are your conditions? To leave the clean and tidy house is logical.
You come to look for us to the airport and… We have to pay the petrol to you, right?
We go home of your friend and take care very well of his house, nice!
We all buy and pay the food that we are going to eat
And really there are two beds, well, there is bed for four persons in the house?
- 2:54pm Aline Groeneveld
- 2:54pm Laia Rojano
(Conversation between Aline and myself. February 2, 2013)
- 2:21am Aline Groeneveld
And also Person2 and Laia need to pay my gas from the weekend here… Laia has some lame excuse she doesn’t have online banking and Person2 just sends back smileys grrr. It was the deal that they would pay my gas and in return I drove them around all weekend, provided a complete house close to amsterdam and some of the food etcetera etcetera. Getting sick of people expecting me to pay for them and not paying me back.
Next time I’m letting people pay up front, simply can’t eat anymore because I don’t have the money for it….
- 4:51am Aline Groeneveld
(feel like a real beggar right now hahaha)
I was never good at asking for money, also never succeeded anywhere to ask for a raise in my life LOL
Thank you sweety, even €35 helps me so much right now!
Also decided for next cartrips to congresses (in a few weeks to Prague for example) to really take a good look what the costs will be for everyone and I will let them pay upfront. Can’t keep afford being a bank for other people anymore…
- 5:03am Aline Groeneveld
Aslo don’t feel really comfortable that they drank a lot of **** fruitjuices, using half a bottle of olive oil etcetera etcera while I said upfront that we had to replace anything we would use there… I didn’t use any of his stuff by the way, I’m to well raised LOL
- 5:04am Leah InShade
Hmmm that’s not nice at all…
- 5:04am Aline Groeneveld
Haha true! Even my neighbor said that I lost to much weight lately and kept telling me to take better care of myself LOL
I konw I konw, but what was I to do? Send them to the store ‘Go buy that stuff!’ Laia even asked me ‘Is that the only olive oil left?’ after using a lot and didn’t react at all when I said ‘Yes You’ve used it all’
I’m not like that but I avoid arguments when they are just a couple of days here…
- 5:08am Leah InShade
People forget things. Next time something like this happens, you should just say “guys, here’s a store where you can get olive oil and drinks that you got from ****’s. Should I go with you, or wait in the car?”
It’s non-confrontational. If they ask why, then you can tell them “remember the deal was to replace everything? ” with a smile. Voila.
- 5:10am Aline Groeneveld
I did that when were in the shop both times! Kept asking hert ‘do you need any juice or this or that?’ Answer: ‘No I’m good’
- 5:10am Leah InShade
“Do you need SOMETHING” is NOT the same as “don’t forget the juice and olive oil”.
Gotta be concrete . I mean… I went to the store 3 times wanting to get vegetables and hair conditioner – for MYSELF – and forgot! You want someone to remember stuff for others?! LOL not gonna happen
- 5:12am Aline Groeneveld
Well ***** doesnt mind I know, but I dont feel good about that you know? I treat people like I want to be treated….
And ***** said (to me only) that that wasn’t necessary but I think that that is normal right? He didn’t say anything about missing stuff by the way so all good there luckily
- 5:12am Leah InShade
I think unless someone ahead of time says “guys use whatever you want, don’t worry about it”, then the default position is to replace everything…
- 5:13am Aline Groeneveld
But next time, I’ll pay better attention to what they are using nd what they have to replace, good lesson learned!
I didn’t tell them that, just the opposite
- 5:14am Leah InShade
I hate it when people do that…. grrrr…
- 5:16am Aline Groeneveld
I told them the day before they arrived that ‘we’ had to replace anything ‘we’ would use. Obviously, I brought food and drinks and breakfast for all of us with me so I didn’t need anything else, we went shopping for dinner
but well it wasn’t that much but I’m different….
and yes it bothers me a lot that they still didn’t give me the gas money while I was very clear upfront about it! I gave Laia the receipt for the gas when I brought them back to Schiphol and she would transfer it to me. Back in Barcelona she messages me:And the revenue of money it has to do Person2, I work every day the all day and when I finish my work… the bank is closed, and… for this I wanted to pay it in cash in the airport’
No she didn’t tell me that at the airport
- 5:23am Leah InShade
- 5:24am Aline Groeneveld
Well never mind now, no use to get worked up about it… I’ll just send them both a message again later today that they really have to transfer it NOW and remind them of the deal and why that was the only way I could come to Amsterdam for them…
You thanx for being a great friend every time again!!! I’d better get some sleep now finally, the roosters next door are already awake whahaha!
(Same conversation, February 25, 2013)
- 6:56am Aline Groeneveld
FYI the last message to Laia and Person2, sent with Whatsapp and FB, also no reply yet… Hate this!
“3:20pm Aline Groeneveld
Hi Person2 and Laia! It was really nice to have you here, but I really have to ask you to transfer me the gas and parking money of €81,15 + €5,75 = €86,90 ASAP.
That was the deal for the weekend. I told you in front that otherwise I wouldn’t go to Amsterdam for the weekend simply because I didn’t / don’t have the money for it and you were fine with that and offered to pay my gas and party entrance. I made it a lot cheaper for you by arranging the house close to Amsterdam, I paid a part of the gas myself, I paid for the parking at Schiphol on Friday and Monday in Amsterdam, I paid for my own party entrance and I brought some food and drinks for you guys too. Please don’t let me regret helping you guys to have a nice cheap weekend in Amsterdam and send me the €86,90 ASAP, I’m in real trouble now with some bills that I can’t pay because of this. You can transfer it to my PayPal (*********@*****.com) or to my bank account: (bank account details omitted)
Thank you in advance… Kisses, Aline”
- 6:57pm Aline Groeneveld
(sent this last Friday by the way)
- 6:58pm Leah InShade
It’s very bad when you tell someone you’d pay them back immediately then not do it – people count on a certain budget… I’d never say “I’ll pay you back immediately” if I can’t, I’d say “I don’t know when I can pay you back”.
- 7:00pm Aline Groeneveld
Yeah I know! Imagine that €87 is practically nothing to Laia. She has a normal good paying job, a big house with a pool in the backyard etcetera etcetera
- 7:00pm Leah InShade
Yeah that’s even worse Those who have some money seem to be the worst about paying back!
(Conversation I started with Person2 and Laia on March 26, 2013 when I got seriously mad at them both after Aline told me they STILL are refusing to pay up, plus the whole reporting the post deal)
- 4:23am Leah InShade
Seriously guys? I mean, REALLY? You take advantage of a person’s kindness, leave her WITHOUT FUCKING FOOD, now report her posts? Wow. I thought better of you both. WOW. You’re paying Aline back EVERY FUCKING CENT YOU OWE HER THIS VERY WEEK, or this is going into a major blog entry that will be posted all over the internet to warn other people that you two cannot be trusted.
Consider yourselves informed.
- 4:27am Person2
I later this month when I get paid at work will give me
I started on March 1 to work
- 4:28am Leah InShade
Fair enough. I’ll check with her, mark my word. Honestly though… You left a person with nothing to buy food with… I had to send her money myself… Next time don’t make financial promises you can’t keep in due time.
- 4:28am Person2
Laia made the trip all the money she paid all
- 4:31am Leah InShade
This is Aline’s status update from 13 hours ago:
“Unbelievable! Being so kind to make sure 2 friends can come to Amsterdam, arrange a house to stay for free, show them the whole weekend around town, taking care of them, being their personal chauffeur and bring them safely to parties and back home, play tour guide and bring them anywhere they want and make them feel welcome. The only thing we agreed is that they would pay for the gas and parking I spend for them, because otherwise I wouldn’t have come to Amsterdam and I was only coming for them to be sure they had a great weekend for almost no costs. When I brought them to the airport on Monday after the weekend, I offered them that they could send me the money by banktransfer and also because I couldn’t stay parked at the airport Kiss & Go spot (only €87,-. To be extra kind to them, I payed the rest of the costs of €82 myself, even though I couldn’t afford it at the moment).
Result: 6 weeks later: they STILL haven’t sent me the money ánd they are now reporting my posts at Facebook as ‘hurtful’
WTF?!?!?!?!? Who is being hurtful here????”
Someone’s providing inaccurate information here.
- 4:31am Person2
I did not make promises I had no money, I Laia pay all costs and Laia was who told him aria transfer aline
- 4:32am Leah InShade
You three had a deal. That deal needs to be kept. Simple. Sort it out please – this situation shouldn’t have happened at all. Have a nice week and congratulations on getting a new job by the way.
- 4:33am Person2
I hoped she would Laia transfer
my word that when I get paid at work I transfer my part of what I
My part 45 euros
- 4:36am Leah InShade
Yes, Aline also hoped Laia will. Apparently, she didn’t do so yet.
- 4:37am Person2
I discussed with Laia and not talk
- 4:37am Leah InShade
Write Aline a note about it so that she will know. Hugs.
- 4:38am Person2
Dancing nobody here speaks
- 4:38am Leah InShade
Laia is in this conversation. She’ll read it. At least, it would be better for her if she does .
- 4:40am Person2
aline was good person to me and I’ll give my 45 euros at month end
- 4:40am Leah InShade
Yes, I get that. Let her know and I will also tell her tomorrow that you will.
- 4:42am Person2
aline tell that I will give my best to the end of the month when I do job transfer
- 4:42am Leah InShade
- 4:44am Person2
Laia when reading angry conversation with me but I do not want trouble so I say the truth
Congress enjoy hugs and kisses
- 4:49am Leah InShade
I honestly really don’t care about any angry conversations. Laia speaks good English. They had an agreement with Aline. Aline also told Laia that she will only come to Amsterdam for you guys and cannot afford the gas herself because that would leave her with no money to buy food. So Laia can talk all she wants, but she has to let Aline know when she will pay her back because talking doesn’t pay bills or debts. Or I will let everyone else know that she is an unreliable person. Then she can have as many angry conversations with me as she may want, but her reputation would be updated to reflect the reality of her behavior.
Hugs to you!
- 4:52am Person2
aline tell thanks to send me a private message with the ways I can do it transfer
(Same conversation, March 27)
- 8:43pm Laia Rojano
Oh! Now I see the message, but… I am not interested in reading, believe that Alline does not reason correctly
- 8:49pm Laia Rojano
And nobody has because to listen or to know nothing, it imports neither my private life nor my problems to the people, she has publicized something that is not been true. Because I it offered to pay in the moment of hechar petrol, before going away in the airport… Even I said to him that it should not bother to give his house because the hotel was working out very cheap for myself, but he insisted!! In order that so many insistence? Now 40 to proclaim myself €? Do I claim the money of the coffees? Do I claim the money of the food? Do I him claim something of petrol when it was in Barcelona? Of the potatoes that I bought before the holiday…. Etc
- 8:52pm Laia Rojano
Do you speak about reputation? Still do you believe that his behavior is the suitable one? One notices that only you have listened to his version of the facts…
- 8:57pm Laia Rojano
She becomes the victim! And it does not worry me what he says because my real friends already know me, they know since I am and as actuo.
(Same conversation, March 28)
- 4:53am Leah InShade
Laia you had an agreement. YOU broke that agreement. You can NOT all of a sudden start keeping score about unrelated things. And you shared food in Amsterdam. Pay what you owe, end of story.
- 6:27am Leah InShade
There was an agreement. Aline told you guys that she would NOT come to Amsterdam – she could NOT afford it. You talked her into coming and promised to pay the gas and parking costs.
If you took the house or not does NOT matter. Either way, if you wanted Aline to drive to Amsterdam – she told you about gas and parking. If you wanted to pay extra for the hotel, it would make no difference for the gas money or for parking money.
At the airport it was impossible for Aline to stay at the spot where she was standing – it was kiss-and-go, not parking. You started opening your suitcase and looking for something – there was no time for that. This is why she said it can also be bank transfer – she could not stay longer at the spot with her car.
(Note: Aline’s status update from March 25, 2013 at 4:21pm, that is mentioned above, is available here. The update was made after Aline posted simply “Laia, Person2?” on Laia’s timeline – a post Laia proceeded to report. The report resulted in Aline having to change her password and being banned from Facebook for a few hours).
(Conversation between Person2 and Aline, April 23, 2013).
- 10:02am Aline Groeneveld
- 10:04am Person2
at the end of this month I will have my work income
I will write and I will do the transfer
- 10:06am Aline Groeneveld
I heard you would send me the money at the first if April that’s why I was waiting patiently again. Please send me the full amount ASAP ok?
(First OF April I meant)
- 10:07am Person2
(Conversation between Aline and myself, April 23, 2013)
- 10:04am Aline Groeneveld
Still nothing from Person2 and Laia by the way..
- 10:12am Aline Groeneveld
Mmm finally Person2 answers now. Promises to send it end of the month. I’m not gonna hold my breath
(Conversation between Aline, Person2 and Laia, May 20, 2013)
- 9:36pm Aline Groeneveld
(Note: no responses followed)